Comments on: Analogies and abortions http://brebisnoire.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/analogies-and-abortions/ Animals, veterinary medicine and history, religion and more... Mon, 07 Dec 2009 23:03:22 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: kelevee http://brebisnoire.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/analogies-and-abortions/#comment-352 kelevee Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:59:11 +0000 http://brebisnoire.wordpress.com/?p=183#comment-352 Dan, I agree with your search for intellectual responses to both dilemmas - abortion and inflicting pain and suffering on animals. My addition thoughts and more-or-less conclusions on abortion is that human beings are given choices, and have the ability and the right to choose. I, personally, would not choose an abortion, and protected myself from unwanted pregnacies with modern contraceptives and in the end "sterilization". I do know that most abortions are chosen for frivilous reasons, selfish. Late term abortions seem most vile to me, in that a woman could actually kill a baby who has every chance to live outside the womb. However, these women, whatever their reasons, are responsible for their choices, a great number live with troubling emotional consequences - but thats their problem, in my opinion. Human beings have historically and do today commit depraved acts of violence and cruelty upon one another, and are only subdued by laws or threat of prison, etc. On the other hand, animals have NO choice and are at the mercy of the same human beings who are capable of such unmerciless acts. That is why I, and others, speak and act for animals. They are innocent, defenseless beings in our modern world, and I encourage you to investigate and determine their capacity to FEEL. I am absolutely sure of this, and actually, cannot fathom an intelligent human being not acknowledging this fact. I don't kno how much involvement your life is with animals, but one does not have to look in all the lofty scientific manuals to learn of an animal's capacity for hurt, emotional and physical, as well as their loyal, loving spirit exhibiting in untold ways, over and over. I am a die hard skeptic myself - religion, spiritual issues, etc. - but for this one thing I am sure, Animals are the most precious, lovely and invaluable gift on earth. People who bring intentional pain, or accept the industrial animal production/transport/slaughter system as OK, and institutional animal cruelty, legal animal abuse in research laboratories, have lost their moral compass, in my opinion. Information is easily obtained on these subjects, I encourage you to research, weigh the facts - and even look into your heart (a mysterious sphere ??) and you may come to the same conclusions as I have, including a growing number of human beings who search for the truth. Dan, I agree with your search for intellectual responses to both dilemmas – abortion and inflicting pain and suffering on animals. My addition thoughts and more-or-less conclusions on abortion is that human beings are given choices, and have the ability and the right to choose. I, personally, would not choose an abortion, and protected myself from unwanted pregnacies with modern contraceptives and in the end “sterilization”. I do know that most abortions are chosen for frivilous reasons, selfish. Late term abortions seem most vile to me, in that a woman could actually kill a baby who has every chance to live outside the womb. However, these women, whatever their reasons, are responsible for their choices, a great number live with troubling emotional consequences – but thats their problem, in my opinion. Human beings have historically and do today commit depraved acts of violence and cruelty upon one another, and are only subdued by laws or threat of prison, etc. On the other hand, animals have NO choice and are at the mercy of the same human beings who are capable of such unmerciless acts. That is why I, and others, speak and act for animals. They are innocent, defenseless beings in our modern world, and I encourage you to investigate and determine their capacity to FEEL. I am absolutely sure of this, and actually, cannot fathom an intelligent human being not acknowledging this fact. I don’t kno how much involvement your life is with animals, but one does not have to look in all the lofty scientific manuals to learn of an animal’s capacity for hurt, emotional and physical, as well as their loyal, loving spirit exhibiting in untold ways, over and over.
I am a die hard skeptic myself – religion, spiritual issues, etc. – but for this one thing I am sure, Animals are the most precious, lovely and invaluable gift on earth. People who bring intentional pain, or accept the industrial animal production/transport/slaughter system as OK, and institutional animal cruelty, legal animal abuse in research laboratories, have lost their moral compass, in my opinion. Information is easily obtained on these subjects, I encourage you to research, weigh the facts – and even look into your heart (a mysterious sphere ??) and you may come to the same conclusions as I have, including a growing number of human beings who search for the truth.

]]> By: Dan http://brebisnoire.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/analogies-and-abortions/#comment-351 Dan Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:29:28 +0000 http://brebisnoire.wordpress.com/?p=183#comment-351 I can agree that analogies are used to make a trivial matter appear to have more significance. I prefer to be given an intellectual argument for, or against, a matter such as abortion. Last night, over the internet, I happened to watch an ultrasound video of a 12-week abortion. The commentator, a doctor who was once the Director of one of the largest abortion clinics years ago, explained how the abortion procedure is performed. Then he described everything the ultrasound video was showing during the entire procedure. Again, I watched this to gain the understanding, to know the reality of it, not just to be presented with analogies. I don't accept just being told that an animal feels pain, has consious awareness, etc. and those that injure them for commercial reasons are bad. And on the other hand accept being told that a mother should be allowed to do the same thing to another "something" that feels pain, has consious awareness, etc. and that is OK. Why should I be aware of what an abortion does to a living fetus and it is none of my business, but instead it should be my business when somebody else causes a similar suffering to an animal being terminated? I need the intellectual response to my dilemna, not an analogy. I can agree that analogies are used to make a trivial matter appear to have more significance. I prefer to be given an intellectual argument for, or against, a matter such as abortion. Last night, over the internet, I happened to watch an ultrasound video of a 12-week abortion. The commentator, a doctor who was once the Director of one of the largest abortion clinics years ago, explained how the abortion procedure is performed. Then he described everything the ultrasound video was showing during the entire procedure.
Again, I watched this to gain the understanding, to know the reality of it, not just to be presented with analogies. I don’t accept just being told that an animal feels pain, has consious awareness, etc. and those that injure them for commercial reasons are bad. And on the other hand accept being told that a mother should be allowed to do the same thing to another “something” that feels pain, has consious awareness, etc. and that is OK.
Why should I be aware of what an abortion does to a living fetus and it is none of my business, but instead it should be my business when somebody else causes a similar suffering to an animal being terminated?
I need the intellectual response to my dilemna, not an analogy.

]]> By: Sandy http://brebisnoire.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/analogies-and-abortions/#comment-293 Sandy Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:04:41 +0000 http://brebisnoire.wordpress.com/?p=183#comment-293 Enjoyed your post/article immensely. You may be interested to read my article on Jewish Magazine website, Tikkun.org. re: the high percentage of Jewish personalities in the history of AR Movement, and today's activists, including I.B. Singer. Check out Lost From This Good Earth at http://www.tikkun.org/article.php/Nathan Keep up the good writing! Sandra Enjoyed your post/article immensely. You may be interested to read my article on Jewish Magazine website, Tikkun.org. re: the high percentage of Jewish personalities in the history of AR Movement, and today’s activists, including I.B. Singer.
Check out Lost From This Good Earth at
http://www.tikkun.org/article.php/Nathan
Keep up the good writing!
Sandra

]]> By: mouthyorange http://brebisnoire.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/analogies-and-abortions/#comment-280 mouthyorange Fri, 12 Jun 2009 23:01:59 +0000 http://brebisnoire.wordpress.com/?p=183#comment-280 I agree with you too much! Written any books lately? I agree with you too much! Written any books lately?

]]> By: Lilian Nattel http://brebisnoire.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/analogies-and-abortions/#comment-279 Lilian Nattel Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:09:07 +0000 http://brebisnoire.wordpress.com/?p=183#comment-279 Oh and I should add that those "pious" people who incited the violence or contributed to it with holocaust/nazi imagery give a bad name to religion. Oh and I should add that those “pious” people who incited the violence or contributed to it with holocaust/nazi imagery give a bad name to religion.

]]> By: Lilian Nattel http://brebisnoire.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/analogies-and-abortions/#comment-278 Lilian Nattel Fri, 12 Jun 2009 22:07:48 +0000 http://brebisnoire.wordpress.com/?p=183#comment-278 Totally articulate as usual It is courageous of those women to speak of what must have been painful and wrenching. I hope that their stories educate people about the reality that led to Dr. Tiller's untimely death. Totally articulate as usual It is courageous of those women to speak of what must have been painful and wrenching. I hope that their stories educate people about the reality that led to Dr. Tiller’s untimely death.

]]> By: fern hill http://brebisnoire.wordpress.com/2009/06/12/analogies-and-abortions/#comment-277 fern hill Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:22:47 +0000 http://brebisnoire.wordpress.com/?p=183#comment-277 Brava! I have often thought exactly the same thing. Analogies do not work on this issue. Being pregnant whether willingly or not is like nothing else. The genocide one and the slavery one are really revolting. But some attempts at analogy are pretty funny. Do you remember when SUZY likened pregnancy to owning a television? And didn't SHE have another go with a parrot in a cage or something like that? Brava!

I have often thought exactly the same thing. Analogies do not work on this issue. Being pregnant whether willingly or not is like nothing else.

The genocide one and the slavery one are really revolting.

But some attempts at analogy are pretty funny. Do you remember when SUZY likened pregnancy to owning a television? And didn’t SHE have another go with a parrot in a cage or something like that?

]]>